Curse

Arkantos · Dec 17, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I'm going to need some proof that a W/N that cracks defenses is bad... I don't see how a pure warrior will be 'better' than one who can BUST DOWN walls of defense...

Wild Blow Busts stances true... Let's see it break through enchantments that raise armor or auto block. What? Your Necromancer is using an enchant remover? That's odd, I thought they can do better by bringing ya know, skills that do damage! Since you can't hurt your foe who's hiding behind armor buff enchant or block enchant, rend is a natural...

Curses have skills that activate on physical hit. Someone is gonna have to try REALLY HARD justifying that a caster should bring Barbs instead of a warrior. Ever seen how a 10 Curses Barbed Kunnavang gets injured by 2 warriors with Vamp Bows, 2 rangers, and 10 lvl-16 DM Bone Fiends? That's a LOT of 10s popping up in a matter of 3 seconds...

For the record, if you're gonna go more than 9 str or 9 tactics in your warrior, that's gonna be hard to justify.

16 weapon, 9 str/tactics for shield, 10 curses. That's plenty. The damage boost you get from str or the duration boosts from tactics shouts aren't worth going 13 str/tactics, no way...

Mark of Pain? Yeah, due to the new AoE retreat AI, it does suck, but your very smart water elementalist or Earth Shaker Warrior is nearby for that I'd hope.

Cracked Armor helps warriors, sadly, there ARE NO CONDITIONS for warrior weapons to cause cracked armor. Well of Ruin = AoE armor breaking... Is that bad? Someone show me something better...

/facepalm

I really don't know what to say. You've managed to put so many horrible points into one post that this forum is going to implode.

Instead of telling you why most of your points are bad, I'll say this. Necro's debuff enemies, warriors bash enemies in the face. Other then that, I don't think me saying anything ill change what you think of your curse warrior.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 17, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Wild Blow Busts stances true... Let's see it break through enchantments that raise armor or auto block. What? Your Necromancer is using an enchant remover? That's odd, I thought they can do better by bringing ya know, skills that do damage! Since you can't hurt your foe who's hiding behind armor buff enchant or block enchant, rend is a natural...

besides spiteful, necro damage is horrible. the rest of the curses line (the only really robust line the necro has) is filled with random debuffs to support your team through miss hexes and weakness, or its some debuff that makes warriors do more damage. So yeah, bringing something like Rip Enchantment or Rend is probably more useful then bringing a shitty direct damage, especially when they have the energy to actually support their skills--something the warrior doesn't have access to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Mark of Pain? Yeah, due to the new AoE retreat AI, it does suck, but your very smart water elementalist or Earth Shaker Warrior is nearby for that I'd hope.

water elementalists and hammer warriors are absolutely horrible in end-game pve. I suppose they can both work if you're trying to fight through North Kryta Province on Normal mode, but then again, anything works there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Cracked Armor helps warriors, sadly, there ARE NO CONDITIONS for warrior weapons to cause cracked armor. Well of Ruin = AoE armor breaking... Is that bad? Someone show me something better...

You're wasting corpses you could be using for minions, putrid, or a good well for something that gives enemies -20 armor?

ender6 · Dec 17, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I'm going to need some proof that a W/N that cracks defenses is bad... I don't see how a pure warrior will be 'better' than one who can BUST DOWN walls of defense...

Wild Blow Busts stances true... Let's see it break through enchantments that raise armor or auto block. What? Your Necromancer is using an enchant remover? That's odd, I thought they can do better by bringing ya know, skills that do damage! Since you can't hurt your foe who's hiding behind armor buff enchant or block enchant, rend is a natural...

Curses have skills that activate on physical hit. Someone is gonna have to try REALLY HARD justifying that a caster should bring Barbs instead of a warrior. Ever seen how a 10 Curses Barbed Kunnavang gets injured by 2 warriors with Vamp Bows, 2 rangers, and 10 lvl-16 DM Bone Fiends? That's a LOT of 10s popping up in a matter of 3 seconds...

For the record, if you're gonna go more than 9 str or 9 tactics in your warrior, that's gonna be hard to justify.

16 weapon, 9 str/tactics for shield, 10 curses. That's plenty. The damage boost you get from str or the duration boosts from tactics shouts aren't worth going 13 str/tactics, no way...

Mark of Pain? Yeah, due to the new AoE retreat AI, it does suck, but your very smart water elementalist or Earth Shaker Warrior is nearby for that I'd hope.

Cracked Armor helps warriors, sadly, there ARE NO CONDITIONS for warrior weapons to cause cracked armor. Well of Ruin = AoE armor breaking... Is that bad? Someone show me something better...

If you want access to Necro Hexes, bring along a Curse Necro who can properly spec pts/and have adequate energy to use those skills. Why Gimp your warrior? Warriors have extremely high DPS--let them do what they do best.

PS there is no need for sup runes on a warrior.

Crom The Pale · Dec 18, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Actually a War/necro can be very effective with wells, as long as your not needing the corpses for minions.

[skill]Well of Blood[/skill] fast and easy way for the war to buff the party

[skill]Well of Suffering[/skill] fast and easy AoE degen, add some bleeding to speed up kills.

When running an adrenaline war these are easily affordable skills, though you would not bring both on one bar ofcourse.

NOTE* these icons need to be updated, the wells are 10energy 1sec cast time and 10sec recharge now *

Arkantos · Dec 18, 2007, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Both those wells are a joke on a necromancer, they're worse on a warrior. The healing from WoB is crap, the damage from WoS is crap.

RhanoctJocosa · Dec 18, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

attack skill 1-3
FGJ
Watch Yourself
IAS
Run skill
Res

Make me wonder wether warriors need a secondary at all, I never use a secondary on PvE warriors,
exceptions are blind heavy areas, because it's usually spammed like mad (throw dirt in tahnakai,
b-flash/surge spam). And usually I tend to bring antidote signet instead of mtouch because it's free.

Pretty much. You could swap out WY! for Save Yourselves! if you have a decent rank.

EDIT: lol @ wells. 2 15e spells on a warrior is good rite

Pick Me · Dec 18, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Both those wells are a joke on a necromancer, they're worse on a warrior. The healing from WoB is crap, the damage from WoS is crap.

Well of Blood is fine for a support Necro. It does help the monks a bit in the healing department, and is a good way of getting rid of corpses.

Well of Suffering, it isn't needed at all, but the computer uses it effectively enough.

Since they both cost 15 energy, yeah, it is horrible on a warrior.

I would have imagined [skill]consume corpse[/skill] would have been better.

However, other than Plague Touch, I can't see a warrior really using an other necro skill.

Teutonic Paladin · Dec 18, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Actually a War/necro can be very effective with wells, as long as your not needing the corpses for minions.

[skill]Well of Blood[/skill] fast and easy way for the war to buff the party

[skill]Well of Suffering[/skill] fast and easy AoE degen, add some bleeding to speed up kills.

When running an adrenaline war these are easily affordable skills, though you would not bring both on one bar ofcourse.

Stop giving advice Crom, you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

Crom The Pale · Dec 19, 2007, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin

Stop giving advice Crom, you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

Funny I think after 32 months I have a very good idea of what I am talking about.

Well of blood is a very fast and effective way to counter the degen from disease which can affect the entire party and continue to spread unless the monk has extiguish.

Well of suffering is quick AoE degen on any foes in the wells, and last I played degen was a good thing, or should we drop bleeding/poision/disease/burning/all degen hexes from the game entirely?

LightningHell · Dec 19, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Funny I think after 32 months I have a very good idea of what I am talking about.

Well of blood is a very fast and effective way to counter the degen from disease which can affect the entire party and continue to spread unless the monk has extiguish.

Well of suffering is quick AoE degen on any foes in the wells, and last I played degen was a good thing, or should we drop bleeding/poision/disease/burning/all degen hexes from the game entirely?

Funny, I think Well of Blood is a very inefficient way of party healing, and Heal Party on a Necro or Ele, or a Paragon Song of Restoration can do better.

Well of Suffering is quick AoE degen on any foes in the wells that you can bash their face in anyway. And you'd be very lucky to get more than what? 3? Foes into the well. And last time I checked, you're better off bashing their face in as the time and energy spent casting equates to just about a hit or two on a foe in terms of damage. It's even inferior to normal attacks if you're using Dragon Slash (as the "normal" attack would be Dragon Slash anyway).

Arkantos · Dec 19, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Funny I think after 32 months I have a very good idea of what I am talking about.

Well of blood is a very fast and effective way to counter the degen from disease which can affect the entire party and continue to spread unless the monk has extiguish.

Well of suffering is quick AoE degen on any foes in the wells, and last I played degen was a good thing, or should we drop bleeding/poision/disease/burning/all degen hexes from the game entirely?

I really don't think you do know what you're talking about. People here don't give a crap about what your opinion is on what's good and what's not, people want to know the facts on what's good and what's not. Go ahead and run whatever you feel is good, just don't give people looking for advice bad advice.

As a warrior, you're in the front line. Wells exploit the corpse nearest to you. So unless you want your casters to stand in the front line for little health regen, go for it. And unless your team sucks, WoS won't be able to do enough degen to the enemies to make it worthwhile.

A Leprechaun · Dec 19, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

I don't think that the wells would be very effective, but they are far, far, far from the worst necro skills a warrior could bring, so long as your not stealing corpses from a MM.
And to all those who said " those 15e wells cant be used on warrior bar" well know if you had the intelligence or decency to read Crom's post you would see that he already said that the skills icons haven't been updated and they are both 10e spells, fine to use on a warrior bar in moderation.

I wouldn't necessarily use them, or advise them, but would prefer myself, or another warrior, to take one of the wells over something like Lingering Curse or Summon Bone Fiend.

~A Leprechaun~

RyXXed · Dec 19, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Only place you should bring wells is probably the Vizunah Square mission. Enough corpses for the MM and the well spammer. And not on a warrior, that's just retarded. If you want to buff your party, get "Save yourself!".

A Leprechaun · Dec 19, 2007, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyXXed

Only place you should bring wells is probably the Vizunah Square mission. Enough corpses for the MM and the well spammer. And not on a warrior, that's just retarded. If you want to buff your party, get "Save yourself!".

1) not everyone brings a MM hero everywhere.
2)Save yourselves generally needs a huge amount of bar to keep it going, whether it be Enduring Harmony->FGJ!->DS->SY or DS->SY->Brawling->Steelfang, its still needs at least 4 slots and a hell of a lot of spam to keep it going constantly.

I'm not saying the wells are comparable in party-saving with Save Yourselves! but its a hell of a lot easier to cast every 15-20 seconds rather than SY! and a load of other skills to keep it going every 3-4 seconds.

~A Leprechaun~

RyXXed · Dec 19, 2007, 11:51 AM // 11:51

1) I was talking about the mission. I only use the MM and wells there, otherwise it's just my damage heroes.
2) I'm just saying if you want to be a party support warrior, Save Yourself is your choice. You would have to spend attributes to help you which reduces the damage which you deal. And you can't use wells just anywhere, you need corpses. Now isn't it better to bring a necro hero with wells and you yourself be damage, than you balancing stuff out. I personally, don't use Save Yourself, but for me it looks better.

If you really want to go support, go make a paragon.

Arkantos · Dec 19, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

1) not everyone brings a MM hero everywhere.
2)Save yourselves generally needs a huge amount of bar to keep it going, whether it be Enduring Harmony->FGJ!->DS->SY or DS->SY->Brawling->Steelfang, its still needs at least 4 slots and a hell of a lot of spam to keep it going constantly.

I'm not saying the wells are comparable in party-saving with Save Yourselves! but its a hell of a lot easier to cast every 15-20 seconds rather than SY! and a load of other skills to keep it going every 3-4 seconds.

~A Leprechaun~

In PvE if you're running a sword warrior you're more then likely be running dslash. FGJ is pretty much a staple on a dslash bar. With FGJ, dslash and a IAS keeping up SY is no problem. Even when FGJ is down, you'll be able to keep SY up enough to make it more useful then a well would ever be on a warrior. Even without playing dslash, +100 armor for 3 seconds every few seconds is more useful then speccing into a crappy attribute for a well that won't benefit anyone but melee unless your casters stand in the front line.

iridescentfyre · Dec 19, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Well of blood is a very fast and effective way to counter the degen from disease which can affect the entire party and continue to spread unless the monk has extiguish.

What monk would need you to bring that just to counter -4 degen?

Crom The Pale · Dec 19, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

[skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]"Save Yourselves!"[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Sever Artery[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill][skill]Well of Suffering[/skill]

Attributes: 15 Swordsmanship
11 Strength
10 Death Magic

So here is the simple plan, pick target, Dslash it to death while keeping up SY. When it dies you cast well and pick new target, since your a smart war youve drawn agro and have mostlikely 4-6 foes in range of the well since they are rather large. You get 23 seconds of -4 degen, that 1 second cast time won't even slow you down.

Now this isn't for facing your 4-5 foe mobs in GWEN. This build is for the Defend the Dwarves type quests where your facing 50+ foes in one location or in Factions where mob patrols often strike while your in the middle of a fight already.

As for well of blood, never sugested that casters should stand in front lines. However I've rarely seen a large mob battle where at least one melee didn't get past the front line to strike at my casters, who are smart and tend to focus and spike down that melee then switch back to nuking. Not to mention that this build is good when facing foes that sumon corpses as its a very fast cast and can chew up a corpse preventing a sumon while offseting degen hexes that necros in PvE most always use.

Lastly, if you have nothing positive to say about me, then shut up. If you don't like the build fine, you are free to have any oppinion about it you like. Try it, ignore it. But don't jump on a soap box and flame me simply because you think your the smartest person in the world, news flash for you, your not that bright!

Tyla · Dec 19, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Lastly, if you have nothing positive to say about me, then shut up. If you don't like the build fine, you are free to have any oppinion about it you like. Try it, ignore it. But don't jump on a soap box and flame me simply because you think your the smartest person in the world, news flash for you, your not that bright!

you DONT need to be smart to play an online game, its not like its part of schoolwork...
however, wells on a warrior with sucky damage/dps anyway when you can just go /P for enduring harmony(d-slash) or /Mo for mending touch(2 condi removed) or /N for plague touch or /E for shock(kinda redundant in pve i must say) or /R for....antidote signet?
(btw anti signet is a very random one i must say

)

Arkantos · Dec 19, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

[skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]"Save Yourselves!"[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Sever Artery[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill][skill]Well of Suffering[/skill]

Attributes: 15 Swordsmanship
11 Strength
10 Death Magic

So here is the simple plan, pick target, Dslash it to death while keeping up SY. When it dies you cast well and pick new target, since your a smart war youve drawn agro and have mostlikely 4-6 foes in range of the well since they are rather large. You get 23 seconds of -4 degen, that 1 second cast time won't even slow you down.

Now this isn't for facing your 4-5 foe mobs in GWEN. This build is for the Defend the Dwarves type quests where your facing 50+ foes in one location or in Factions where mob patrols often strike while your in the middle of a fight already.

As for well of blood, never sugested that casters should stand in front lines. However I've rarely seen a large mob battle where at least one melee didn't get past the front line to strike at my casters, who are smart and tend to focus and spike down that melee then switch back to nuking. Not to mention that this build is good when facing foes that sumon corpses as its a very fast cast and can chew up a corpse preventing a sumon while offseting degen hexes that necros in PvE most always use.

Lastly, if you have nothing positive to say about me, then shut up. If you don't like the build fine, you are free to have any oppinion about it you like. Try it, ignore it. But don't jump on a soap box and flame me simply because you think your the smartest person in the world, news flash for you, your not that bright!

You took a good build and put a crappy skill on it. That doesn't make the skill good.

Even in situations where there are enemies everywhere, WoS is bad on a warrior. Take it on a necro or don't take it at all.

Wells exploit nearest corpse. As a warrior you're in the front, casters are in the back. You use a well and it benefits you, unless your casters stand in it and risk being attacked a lot more or you run back to your casters to cast the well, which makes you useless. Warriors aren't supposed to support their party with spells. Nobody wants a warrior running back to support their team just like nobody wants monks to stop supporting their team and start using offensive smiting skills.

You give people bad advice, people are obviously going to criticize your advice. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but people aren't going to talk positive about bad advice. If you can't take people negatively criticizing you, don't post your advice. Nobody here is claiming they're the smartest person in the world, because the smartest person in the world wouldn't be arguing with you. I'm sure this isn't a news flash to you, but you aren't the brightest crayon in the box yourself.